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	<title>Comments on: Symmetry, Control, and Progress</title>
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	<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/</link>
	<description>A regular old blog</description>
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		<title>By: The Original Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How to do VoIP over the Internet</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/comment-page-1/#comment-328444</link>
		<dc:creator>The Original Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How to do VoIP over the Internet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mossback.org/archives/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/#comment-328444</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve been critical of Isenberg and this &#8220;stupid network&#8221; idea for at least three years, so this whole &#8220;tool of the Telcos&#8221; thing is actually quite hilarious. Am I an engineer? Well, I have a philosophy degree and some graduate work in network engineering, have my name on several networking standards and patents, have started, contributed to, and lead several networking vendor groups, and my job title has the word &#8220;engineer&#8221; in it, so I&#8217;d have to say actually, yes, I am an engineer. I wonder how many engineers were in that audience. As to the &#8220;troll&#8221; charge, that&#8217;s in the eye of the beholder. I don&#8217;t tend to follow the herd, if that&#8217;s what it means, but I believe I offer substantial arguments most of the time. I&#8217;d certainly compare the corpus of my engineering work to Isenberg&#8217;s any old time. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve been critical of Isenberg and this &#8220;stupid network&#8221; idea for at least three years, so this whole &#8220;tool of the Telcos&#8221; thing is actually quite hilarious. Am I an engineer? Well, I have a philosophy degree and some graduate work in network engineering, have my name on several networking standards and patents, have started, contributed to, and lead several networking vendor groups, and my job title has the word &#8220;engineer&#8221; in it, so I&#8217;d have to say actually, yes, I am an engineer. I wonder how many engineers were in that audience. As to the &#8220;troll&#8221; charge, that&#8217;s in the eye of the beholder. I don&#8217;t tend to follow the herd, if that&#8217;s what it means, but I believe I offer substantial arguments most of the time. I&#8217;d certainly compare the corpus of my engineering work to Isenberg&#8217;s any old time. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/comment-page-1/#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mossback.org/archives/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>And here I thought businesses were all about selling stuff to citizens.

Lessig argues that the Original Internet Architecture&amp;tm serves as a consitution to limit any and all efforts to enhance, modify, or extend the Internet, all networks attached through the Internet, and all networks that provide accesss to the Internet. But he&#039;s not very clear about where and when this Original Architecture was written, and why it&#039;s more important than all the work on network design that preceded its moment in history or followed it.

Judging by the importance he attaches to end-to-end error detection, flow control, and recovery, I&#039;d guess he&#039;s focussed on the 1982 TCP/IPv4 rollout, and not on the ARPA-Internet that preceded it or the IPv6 network that&#039;s rolling out now. Trouble is, of course, IPv4 was largely a reactionary move driven by one bad experience sloppy programmers at MIT had with a bad memory board in one IMP, and not really a rational, comprehensive, and scalable architecture. And to compound the problems, IPv4 was tailored to timesharing systems connected to each other by 56Kb/s modems serving users on glass Teletypes attached at 300 baud, and we live in a very world today. If we have to make analogies to government, the TCP/IP Internet was the &quot;Articles of Confederation&quot;, not a workable system.

The Internet doesn&#039;t have a constitution, it&#039;s never had one, and it never will, so we have to find some other way to guide public policy on Internet regulation than to pretend the Easter Bunny exists.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I thought businesses were all about selling stuff to citizens.</p>
<p>Lessig argues that the Original Internet Architecture&#038;tm serves as a consitution to limit any and all efforts to enhance, modify, or extend the Internet, all networks attached through the Internet, and all networks that provide accesss to the Internet. But he&#8217;s not very clear about where and when this Original Architecture was written, and why it&#8217;s more important than all the work on network design that preceded its moment in history or followed it.</p>
<p>Judging by the importance he attaches to end-to-end error detection, flow control, and recovery, I&#8217;d guess he&#8217;s focussed on the 1982 TCP/IPv4 rollout, and not on the ARPA-Internet that preceded it or the IPv6 network that&#8217;s rolling out now. Trouble is, of course, IPv4 was largely a reactionary move driven by one bad experience sloppy programmers at MIT had with a bad memory board in one IMP, and not really a rational, comprehensive, and scalable architecture. And to compound the problems, IPv4 was tailored to timesharing systems connected to each other by 56Kb/s modems serving users on glass Teletypes attached at 300 baud, and we live in a very world today. If we have to make analogies to government, the TCP/IP Internet was the &#8220;Articles of Confederation&#8221;, not a workable system.</p>
<p>The Internet doesn&#8217;t have a constitution, it&#8217;s never had one, and it never will, so we have to find some other way to guide public policy on Internet regulation than to pretend the Easter Bunny exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/comment-page-1/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mossback.org/archives/2003/07/symmetry-control-and-progress/#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re actually agreeing with Lessig on many points.

&lt;em&gt; ... the Internet is actually a tool and not a spiritual essence from a higher reality, ...&lt;/em&gt;

This is EXACTLY what Lessig is saying!

Of course, many of us want a tool optimized for citizen use, as opposed to business use, and you&#039;re arguing over that.
But that&#039;s a very standard argument, and there&#039;s little point to repeating it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re actually agreeing with Lessig on many points.</p>
<p><em> &#8230; the Internet is actually a tool and not a spiritual essence from a higher reality, &#8230;</em></p>
<p>This is EXACTLY what Lessig is saying!</p>
<p>Of course, many of us want a tool optimized for citizen use, as opposed to business use, and you&#8217;re arguing over that.<br />
But that&#8217;s a very standard argument, and there&#8217;s little point to repeating it.</p>
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