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	<title>Comments on: Hogging the Trough: The EFF Strikes Back</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/</link>
	<description>A regular old blog</description>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-415740</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennett.com/blog/index.php/archives/2008/01/23/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/#comment-415740</guid>
		<description>It can request multiple reservations at one time, but won&#039;t typically do so unless it has the packets already queued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can request multiple reservations at one time, but won&#8217;t typically do so unless it has the packets already queued.</p>
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		<title>By: bugmenot</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-415286</link>
		<dc:creator>bugmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennett.com/blog/index.php/archives/2008/01/23/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/#comment-415286</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response.

Just to clarify: A single bandwidth request can only serve a single TCP packet? That is, the modem cannot make a request for slots for multiple packets simultaneously during the use of a single contention slot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response.</p>
<p>Just to clarify: A single bandwidth request can only serve a single TCP packet? That is, the modem cannot make a request for slots for multiple packets simultaneously during the use of a single contention slot?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-415056</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennett.com/blog/index.php/archives/2008/01/23/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/#comment-415056</guid>
		<description>DOCSIS requires a bandwidth request for each packet*, regardless of the packet&#039;s size. Each request goes upstream in one of 6 or 8 contention slots reserved for bandwidth requests. This activity is packet-rate-dependent, not packet-size dependent, so it&#039;s not a function of bandwidth consumption.

*Bandwidth requests can be piggy-backed on data packets, but that only works when there are multiple data packets queued in the modem, and even in that case is dependent on the presence of optimization in the modem&#039;s firmware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOCSIS requires a bandwidth request for each packet*, regardless of the packet&#8217;s size. Each request goes upstream in one of 6 or 8 contention slots reserved for bandwidth requests. This activity is packet-rate-dependent, not packet-size dependent, so it&#8217;s not a function of bandwidth consumption.</p>
<p>*Bandwidth requests can be piggy-backed on data packets, but that only works when there are multiple data packets queued in the modem, and even in that case is dependent on the presence of optimization in the modem&#8217;s firmware.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bugmenot</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-415036</link>
		<dc:creator>bugmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennett.com/blog/index.php/archives/2008/01/23/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/#comment-415036</guid>
		<description>Can you elaborate on this point: 
&lt;blockquote&gt; &quot;The bottleneck on the
upstream side isn&#039;t bandwidth per se, it&#039;s the packet rate. So a
number of connection requests use up the cable modem&#039;s contention
slots before raw bandwidth is maxed out. It&#039;s not about bandwidth,
it&#039;s about duty cycle.&quot;  &lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Is your argument, in sum, the following?  
&lt;blockquote&gt; In contrast to
other forms of traffic, Bittorrent produces a large number of small
synchronization (SYN/ACK) packets which substantially increases
contention at the DOCSIS MAC level (through collisions on the
&quot;contention slot&quot;? Or contention for mini-slots?). Packet drop has no
appreciable effect on the number of these packets and so such
&quot;throttling&quot; is ineffective. &lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I would expect the rate of contention to be a function of the amount
of data to be transmitted and not the number of packets: if you are
constantly sending data you need to vie for the same transmit slots
regardless of the size or type of the individual packets. That is, the
same data rate HTTP transfer should create the same degree of
contention as a Bittorrent transfer.  

Second, the amount of contention is limited in some way (it is not
unbounded). How?  

Finally, in the paper you cited, &quot;Assessing the Impact of
BitTorrent on DOCSIS Networks&quot; I see no comparison to performance
degradation caused by other forms of traffic (e.g. HTTP). That there
is contention when links are highly utilized is not under
question. There is no evidence in that paper that Bittorrent, as a
protocol, causes more contention that other forms of traffic.  

Please do not shy away from precise, technical explanations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you elaborate on this point: </p>
<blockquote><p> &#8220;The bottleneck on the<br />
upstream side isn&#8217;t bandwidth per se, it&#8217;s the packet rate. So a<br />
number of connection requests use up the cable modem&#8217;s contention<br />
slots before raw bandwidth is maxed out. It&#8217;s not about bandwidth,<br />
it&#8217;s about duty cycle.&#8221;  </p></blockquote>
<p>Is your argument, in sum, the following?  </p>
<blockquote><p> In contrast to<br />
other forms of traffic, Bittorrent produces a large number of small<br />
synchronization (SYN/ACK) packets which substantially increases<br />
contention at the DOCSIS MAC level (through collisions on the<br />
&#8220;contention slot&#8221;? Or contention for mini-slots?). Packet drop has no<br />
appreciable effect on the number of these packets and so such<br />
&#8220;throttling&#8221; is ineffective. </p></blockquote>
<p>I would expect the rate of contention to be a function of the amount<br />
of data to be transmitted and not the number of packets: if you are<br />
constantly sending data you need to vie for the same transmit slots<br />
regardless of the size or type of the individual packets. That is, the<br />
same data rate HTTP transfer should create the same degree of<br />
contention as a Bittorrent transfer.  </p>
<p>Second, the amount of contention is limited in some way (it is not<br />
unbounded). How?  </p>
<p>Finally, in the paper you cited, &#8220;Assessing the Impact of<br />
BitTorrent on DOCSIS Networks&#8221; I see no comparison to performance<br />
degradation caused by other forms of traffic (e.g. HTTP). That there<br />
is contention when links are highly utilized is not under<br />
question. There is no evidence in that paper that Bittorrent, as a<br />
protocol, causes more contention that other forms of traffic.  </p>
<p>Please do not shy away from precise, technical explanations.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://bennett.com/blog/2008/01/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-414945</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennett.com/blog/index.php/archives/2008/01/23/hogging-the-trough-the-eff-strikes-back/#comment-414945</guid>
		<description>I agree that Comcast hasn&#039;t handled the issue well. They should be the ones defending their actions, not me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Comcast hasn&#8217;t handled the issue well. They should be the ones defending their actions, not me.</p>
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