Christopher Hitchens certainly can turn a phrase:
To describe [Fahrenheit 9/11] as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of “dissenting” bravery.
Hitchens isn’t alone in his contempt for this movie; Ray Bradbury, the man who wrote the story whose title Moore stole, says Moore has no regard for truth.
But Moore has his fans as well as his detractors. Dan Gillmor, Joi Ito, and Cory Doctorow complain that Bradbury is victimizing Moore on the misleading use his title, and then there are these allies:
The movie industry publication Screen Daily reported, ?In terms of marketing the film, [distributor] Front Row is getting a boost from organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to ask if there?s anything they can do to support the film.?
Which side are you on, gentle reader?
The thing about lying, is that everyone does it.
In Cheney’s interview with CNBC, when Gloria Borger mentioned that Cheney had previously described the meeting between 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta and Iraqi intelligence as “pretty well confirmed,” Cheney interrupted: “No, I never said that… Absoutely not.”
Did he ? Or is he just old and forgetful ?
NBC’s Meet the Press (12/9/01): ”That’s been pretty well confirmed that [Atta] did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack.”
What’s the difference between Moore lying and Cheney ? Moore doesn’t affect world policy, Cheney does.
Cheney didn’t lie, according to Czech Security, who stand by the story.
He lies when he says that he never said it was ?pretty well confirmed”. I thought that point was clear.
That’s more like a misstatement than a lie, and it doesn’t bother me.
When Vice Presidents speak about terrorism, and use words like “confirmed”, even if they are qualified with “pretty much”, then they damn well better be able to back it up, democrat or republican. It’s not like he said “maybe”, or “could be”…he said it, then flatly denied he said it.
Not being bothered by it doesn’t make it less a lie. 🙂
That’s the trouble with intelligence, or all imperfect knowledge for that matter, Mike – it’s all a question of probabilities. The Czech Security report on Atta’s meeting will always be controversial; first it was confirmed, then it was unconfirmed, then it was confirmed again, etc.
Unfortunately, foreign intelligence is not always as black-and-white as we might like it to be.
That being said, I think there’s a world of difference between imperfect memory of the facts surrounding a particular claim and the deliberate intent to deceive, and it’s plenty clear where Michael Moore stands on that continuum. He’s going to make more money off the Iraq War than Cheney, BTW, so he has more incentive to lie.
Well, the Czech thing was disproven: (link)
“Soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, Czech officials said they had received reports that Mr. Atta had met in April 2001 with Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim al-Ani, an Iraqi intelligence officer stationed in Prague.
But the C.I.A. and F.B.I., and some top Czech officials, quickly began to cast doubt on the story, and Czech security officials were never able to corroborate the initial report, which was based on a single source. That source made the report after the Sept. 11 attacks, when Mr. Atta’s photograph was published worldwide, and after it had already been reported that Czech border records showed Mr. Atta had visited Prague a year earlier, in 2000.
The evidence concerning Mr. Atta’s whereabouts in Virginia and Florida in early April 2001, at the time of the purported Prague meeting, severely weakens the case for it.”
Ooops.
It doesn’t *matter* whether it happened or not. It is his insistence on dodging responsibility for saying something, in public, is my point.
What DID happen is that Cheney willfully refused that he said something, when he did. And it’s on tape that he did.
And he said it in order to support his and the Administration’s opinion on foreign policy. Just like uranium in Africa, just like half a dozen other comments made in the past to support Iraq. It’s that simple.
Moore says things that are fact, and makes sure that his opinion, in the movie, are presented as such.
Actually, Moore’s work abounds with provable lies. In Bowling for Columbine he stages a scene where he goes into a bank to open and account and leaves with a free gun, no background check. In fact, there was a bank with a free gun offer, but it was a coupon you had to take to a gun shop, and you only got the gun after passing a background check. Truth: background check required; Moore’s lie: no background check required.
In the trailer for 911F, Moore says the White House arranged for 24 members of the bin Laden family to leave the US while the air space was closed, and without being interviewed by the FBI. The truth is that Richard Clarke allowed the bin Ladens to leave on Sept. 20th, after the air space was open, and after the FBI interviewed the 22 of them they were interested in. All were checked against the terror watch lists.
Truth: bin Ladens were allowed to leave the US after the FBI screened them and the air space was open; Moore’s lie: bin Ladens were whisked out the country a day or two after 9/11 without screening.
Michael Moore is a liar, a con man, and big, fat, tub of lard.
My comments about Moore not lying is about Faherenheit 9/11, not Bowling for Columbine. But put Moore aside, because he doesn’t really matter in this context.
Drilling down to the bigger point…which you seem to refuse to even address…Moore can lie all day long, because he doesn’t make policy. Last I heard, there’s not a real superhero spinning webs and fighting crime in New York.
Here’s a fact that cannot be proven to be wrong: Cheney lied about saying something significant in support of policy. It’s provable. Many Cheney supporters have their head in the sand about it.
Moore deliberately lies by innuendo in order to influence the outcome of an election.
I’m not giving him a free pass.
Liar this, liar that. If Fahrenheit 9/11 is full of lies and deceit. Where are the truths? if there simply is no connection between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family, why not have a corrective unveiling? The only discredit that’s been made to Moore to this point are from writers like Hutchins, who damn Moore and the movie with a brash and unprofessional mess of vocabulary and broad insults. The people who accept this war “against evil” are the ones that can read a review stating “piece of crap” and “sinister” and be satisfied. Everyone should see it for themselves… Fahrenheit 9/11 re-established and reminded me of every emotion I felt towards George W. since 2000. In the most polite terms, he is simply not a leader, nor is he capable of it.
Moore lies implicitly, Tim. Let’s stipulate that some people named Bush have done business with some people named bin Laden; so what?
Teddy Kennedy’s daddy did business with Nazi Germany, and Teddy is pro-Palestine. If I were Michael Moore, I would place images of these two facts side by side, put some dots between them, and give you a pencil to connect the dots.
Are you that gullible?
The “some people named Bush” happen to include both George Jr. and Sr.
So?
However, aside from business relations, I simply wanted to state my opinion that George W. is not a capable leader. His family’s oil wealth, his father’s former presidency, and public ignorance seem to be the only things that have allowed him to get to where he is.
Moore didn’t need dialogue to illustrate that when Bush remains silent and seated for seven minutes after hearing America is being attacked. That reaction is expected and consistent behavior for a man whose recived everything by being pointed in a direction.
The people of Afghanistan and Iraq are free because of this “incapable leader”.
Romans 18 thru. 32 read, it will only take a
few minutes of your time.
When GOD knows you have embraced evil over and
above GOD in your life. He will turn you over to a repprobate mind to do evil and to believe
a lie is the truth, and the truth is a lie.
Micheal Moorewill have to stand before GOD one day and answer for every sin he’s done.
and all the wealth in the world will not buy his way out of all the lives he’s contributed
to destroying. Maudiebell Smith